Rolex St James Verification

[Yunsung]

Hi all

Quick question. Will St James be happy to check a watch is genuine/not stolen etc and a health check while you wait?

Thanks

[Carlton-Browne]

I think you should go in under the pretence that you are thinking about changing the strap. The way they explained it to me, they have a blanket policy of putting the serial number of any piece that comes over the counter into their system and they get something that pops up if it's on the lost/stolen register. They certainly did this when I put my Oyster Royal in for a service and again when I bought a bracelet for a Tudor Sub however they didn't bother when I went in again with the Oyster to get the bracelet clasp adjusted. Given they withdrew the register from the general public I wouldn't start with mentioning a register check as my opening gambit, if you see what I mean.

[Yunsung]

Thanks for that. I was actually thinking of going in there with a cheeky one where the time keeping/power reserve needed to be checked, therefore they would have to open it and tell me that they can't see anything wrong with it.

[Andyg]

Thanks for that. I was actually thinking of going in there with a cheeky one where the time keeping/power reserve needed to be checked, therefore they would have to open it and tell me that they can't see anything wrong with it.

I very much doubt they will open it (and have to reseal it - and give you a guarantee) for free. You either want it serviced or not?

[Tony-GB]

Thanks for that. I was actually thinking of going in there with a cheeky one where the time keeping/power reserve needed to be checked, therefore they would have to open it and tell me that they can't see anything wrong with it.

It's been some years since I've been there but I had an issue with one of my Yacht-Masters (timekeeping) and they checked and adjusted it for free. I did have it serviced by Bexley a couple of months previously though.

Try going to one of the dealers in Burlington arcade and saying you're thinking of selling and want a valuation. I've seen that in Duggans when I was buying from them and they refused the watch. When the potential seller had left the premises I asked why they didn't buy it and all they'd say was "it wasn't right". I'd imagine they'd rather get any sniffy watches and customers off the premises rather than have aggro if they confiscated it like St James's would, or tell the seller it's a fake.

[Yunsung]

I very much doubt they will open it (and have to reseal it - and give you a guarantee) for free. You either want it serviced or not?

Thanks but I dont want any guarantee just for them to know that the watch that they have just handled (with serial) number in mind is ok and not stolen/Franken. Because I do know if the watch was suspicious in any way they would keep it. The fact that they would hand it back tells me enough. But the problem is I need them to have a good look at it without fobbing me off. I thought St James would usually give service quotes while you waited in person?

[Barton Red]

I had a similarish issue a few weeks ago. I had the watch verified by Bill Rice (who is local to me) he can't check the lost/stolen register anymore so I called Rolex service centre who advised me to take it to a local AD as they would check the serial number for me.

I was pretty honest with the dealer - telling him I wasn't going to get the watch serviced just yet as I wanted to check the timekeeping. I just wanted him to check whilst I still covered by my credit card protection.

Although he was patronising and quite rude he did do check it over and verified the number against the register (it wasn't registered) after I explained I'd talked to Rolex and they advised me to drop into my local AD. I suspect ADs are 'encouraged' to provide this basic verification by Rolex so I'd recommend giving it a go.

[markrlondon]

if they confiscated it like St James's would, or tell the seller it's a fake.

Because I do know if the watch was suspicious in any way they would keep it.

Disregarding the scenario if the watch was genuine but stolen, do you really think Rolex St. James would keep the watch if they thought it was a fake? Have you personally seen this with your own eyes? Not a friend seeing it, not a friend of a friend seeing it, not a colleague seeing it, but you personally. It is worth bearing in mind that in the UK such an act would not be legally defensible as far as I have been able to ascertain (not even for Rolex), even though it might not necessarily be a criminal act either.

Yes, yes, I know, this has been debated over and over again but Rolex (or any other manufacturer) really does not have any legal right whatsoever in the UK to retain your property, regardless of whether or not they allege it to be a fake, unless you agreed to such terms before handing it over.

If they do retain it without your permission then you have, at the very least, a right to sue them for its return or its value (which in reality can be considerable even for a watch that is a fake because of its intrinsic functionality and materials). If they intend to deprive you of it permanently and you did not agree before handing it over that they could retain it if they so chose then I am told this may be theft (yes, even if they allege it to be a fake). The issue to remember is that the allegation of misuse of their intellectual property is separate to the question of ownership of the specific item of property.

Fakes are only legally destroyed or seized by the proper authorities and/or by court order. These do not apply to Rolex on their say-so alone.

I can only presume that if Rolex St. James found that someone had handed over what was in their opinion a fake then they would simply hand it back and state that opinion (unless, that is, before looking at anyone's watches they require people to agree to a particular contract specifying that goods may be retained).

[Yunsung]

Disregarding the scenario if the watch was genuine but stolen, do you really think Rolex St. James would keep the watch if they thought it was a fake? Have you personally seen this with your own eyes? Not a friend seeing it, not a friend of a friend seeing, not a colleague seeing it, but you personally. It is worth bearing in mind that in the UK such an act would not be legally defensible as far as I have been able to ascertain (not even for Rolex), even though it might not necessarily be a criminal act either.

Yes, yes, I know, this has been debated over and over again but Rolex (or any other manufacturer) really does not have any legal right whatsoever in the UK to retain your property, regardless of whether or not they allege it to be a fake, unless you agreed to such terms before handing it over.

If they do retain it without your permission then you have, at the very least, a right to sue them for its return or its value (which in reality can be considerable even for a watch that is a fake because of its intrinsic functionality and materials). If they intend to deprive you of it permanently and you did not agree before handing it over that they could retain it if they so chose then I am told this may be theft (yes, even if they allege it to be a fake). The issue to remember is that the allegation of misuse of their intellectual property is separate to the question of ownership of the specific item of property.

Fakes are only legally destroyed or seized by the proper authorities and/or by court order. These do not apply to Rolex on their say-so alone.

I can only presume that if Rolex St. James found that someone had handed over what was in their opinion a fake then they would simply hand it back and state that opinion (unless, that is, they require people to agree to a particular contract specifying that goods may be retained before looking at anyone's watches).

Thanks for that reply Mark, I would have no problems with them either keeping it, or handing it back, assuming it was a fake or stolen. Its the correct information I care about most

[Omega53]

When I have had checks done there you need to buy something. So normally a s/s link or bezel insert does the job . They will give you a receipt with your serial number on.

I have heard people ask for quotes on service but never tried that.

[Michael 38]

I have tried to get a serial no search done by rolex and all the rolex ads within a 30 mile radius I even offered to pay for it all flatly refused a couple even denied there was a lost stolen register getting blood out of a stone would seem easy in comparison don't know if this is the same all over the uk

[Tony-GB]

Disregarding the scenario if the watch was genuine but stolen, do you really think Rolex St. James would keep the watch if they thought it was a fake? Have you personally seen this with your own eyes? Not a friend seeing it, not a friend of a friend seeing it, not a colleague seeing it, but you personally. It is worth bearing in mind that in the UK such an act would not be legally defensible as far as I have been able to ascertain (not even for Rolex), even though it might not necessarily be a criminal act either.

Yes, yes, I know, this has been debated over and over again but Rolex (or any other manufacturer) really does not have any legal right whatsoever in the UK to retain your property, regardless of whether or not they allege it to be a fake, unless you agreed to such terms before handing it over.

If they do retain it without your permission then you have, at the very least, a right to sue them for its return or its value (which in reality can be considerable even for a watch that is a fake because of its intrinsic functionality and materials). If they intend to deprive you of it permanently and you did not agree before handing it over that they could retain it if they so chose then I am told this may be theft (yes, even if they allege it to be a fake). .

I totally agree Rolex do not have a right to keep an owners property without permission, but then how do they keep parts replaced in a service despite the owner requesting them? My personal experience is that I had a long spat with Rolex where they damaged the bezel of my Yacht-Master in service and were trying to get me to pay for replacement. After many months they replaced it with a brand new one, but kept the old one, which I had paid for when I bought the watch, which was mine already. I have often read they keep parts- hence replacement tritium dials when original dials would keep the value of the watch up.

It's known they confiscate fakes but I don't have personal experience as I don't- and would never- buy or own a fake, so can't testify that personally. But I have read it on forums. Whether it's an urban internet myth I don't know, but up until now, I've never known it to be challenged.

.

[markrlondon]

then how do they keep parts replaced in a service despite the owner requesting them?

They can legitimately say, like some car parts, that the cost of the new parts is subsidised by the old ones and that they don't sell the replacement parts separately. This is still dissimilar to the outright, legally unsupported seizure of the watch as a whole. Different things entirely.

It's known they confiscate fakes but I don't have personal experience as I don't- and would never- buy or own a fake, so can't testify that personally. But I have read it on forums. Whether it's an urban internet myth I don't know, but up until now, I've never known it to be challenged.

It is not "known" at all! :-) It is a myth or a meme that I have never seen substantiated by first hand experience in the UK.

It has every sign of being an urban myth as far as the UK is concerned. Urban myths grow because they have an element of plausibility and because it is impossible for anyone who does challenge them to disprove them (i.e. how do you disprove something that did not actually happen, at least not in the form that it is described?). Furthermore, lack of challenge can be perceived as implicit evidence of proof, despite there being no substantive evidence whatsoever in favour of the myth. Personally I think this particular myth may have got started in other countries where the laws may be different.

[seikokiller]

It's perfectly legal to own, wear and buy fake watches in the UK.

Anyone attempting to "confiscate" one would be committing a crime.

[bitfield]

Personally I think this particular myth may have got started in other countries where the laws may be different.

Fakes have been seized by Customs, as we've discussed before. This may be the source of the myth.

[markrlondon]

Fakes have been seized by Customs, as we've discussed before. This may be the source of the myth.

Yup (as well as by trading standards, etc.): That might be the source of the myth.

Additionally, if I could be bothered I'd spend some time researching relevant laws and customs in the USA and European countries to see if the myth (together with the associated "dealer smashes with a hammer" myth) might have originated in one of those locations.

[Tony-GB]

I've just called Rolex in London and they confirmed they do not and have never confiscated fakes. They hand them back to the owner. I asked if that was just in the UK and she said thats the companies policy.

However, anything thats been registered as stolen is confiscated and the police called immediately.

I asked about copyright law regarding fakes and being confiscated and the reply was again, they simply hand them back.

[MartynJC (UK)]

I actually bought a fake Rolex after having my real Rolex stolen on vacation, with the idea of wearing it on holiday in case of theft - a cheap holiday watch. Problem is someone nicked it . That's another story.

My insurance replaced new for old on the first watch so I'm all squared now!

Martyn

[mtagrant]

I actually bought a fake Rolex after having my real Rolex stolen on vacation, with the idea of wearing it on holiday in case of theft - a cheap holiday watch. Problem is someone nicked it . That's another story.

My insurance replaced new for old on the first watch so I'm all squared now!

Martyn

Almost...sounds like you are down one fake watch :)

[Yunsung]

Thanks for the responses. Seems I was faffing around too much and the watch I was interested in has sold.

Can never be too careful though on my opinion. Especially when a watch does not come with any extras, box/papers/service. The friend I wanted to buy from was adamant it was genuine, but even if there was a chance he could be wrong I couldn't risk it.

[R0bertb00th]

Always interesting buying without papers and it's something I'm not prepared to do, so was interesting reading this

[markrlondon]

I've just called Rolex in London and they confirmed they do not and have never confiscated fakes. They hand them back to the owner. I asked if that was just in the UK and she said thats the companies policy.

However, anything thats been registered as stolen is confiscated and the police called immediately.

I asked about copyright law regarding fakes and being confiscated and the reply was again, they simply hand them back.

Well done, thanks for doing the obvious and speaking to Rolex. It confirms that the myths are just that.

[spareparts]

St James may not give quotes over the counter. I just had my 5513 serviced by them, and I received the quote by email and hard copy letter about 1 week after dropping it off there. I am not sure if my experience was standard, however, even though I had asked for a complete service.