The original black milsub.

[Sinnlover]

https://perezcope.com/2023/05/07/the...r-5513-milsub/

This is rare watch.

[gerrudd]

Very cool watch and interesting article. I have some extended family that were involved in the South African Border War.

[Balance wheel]

That’s pretty cool thanks for sharing

[Wallasey Runner]

Interesting article. Shame they didn’t show the caseback so we could see the military issued markings if there were any. I wonder why they used a standard 5513 rather than black out a Milsub with sword hands and 60 marker bezel insert, which was already in use for military issue.

It would be interesting to hear what the serious collectors think of this.

[Sinnlover]

Interesting article. Shame they didn’t show the caseback so we could see the military issued markings if there were any. I wonder why they used a standard 5513 rather than black out a Milsub with sword hands and 60 marker bezel insert, which was already in use for military issue.

It would be interesting to hear what the serious collectors think of this.

South African mils subs can have sterile case backs, they were only lightly engraved if they were at all. It was a simple hand engraved serial number.
The key with South African issued submariners is the watch makers marks inside the case back (as I understand it talking to font of all knowledge on these)
I guess the the reason for not issuing a ‘standard milsub’ is 2 fold. They were taken off the standard production line, same as the Tudor subs and the UK milsub was a special order for the MOD. If Rolex didn’t need to modify their standard watch with a new dial and hands why would they. These black Teflon coated watches are rarer than the 5517 et all. This might be the only one left with the Teflon coating. Most would appear as a standard worn out 5513. It was also not used as a dive watch, just a rugged legible time keeper.

There is still a reluctance to wear anything that can shine / reflect light by the old timers when in the African bush. (from their bush war experiences) Watches, sunglasses and any thing else that can glint is taken off or it’s of a type that will minimise any glint. I can believe something like this was ordered. (It’s the same for anything that might create noise) it was one of the first things drummed in to me by the old boys.

[Wallasey Runner]

South African mils subs can have sterile case backs, they were only lightly engraved if they were at all. It was a simple hand engraved serial number.
The key with South African issued submariners is the watch makers marks inside the case back (as I understand it talking to font of all knowledge on these)
I guess the the reason for not issuing a ‘standard milsub’ is 2 fold. They were taken off the standard production line, same as the Tudor subs and the UK milsub was a special order for the MOD. If Rolex didn’t need to modify their standard watch with a new dial and hands why would they. These black Teflon coated watches are rarer than the 5517 et all. This might be the only one left with the Teflon coating. Most would appear as a standard worn out 5513. It was also not used as a dive watch, just a rugged legible time keeper.

There is still a reluctance to wear anything that can shine / reflect light by the old timers when in the African bush. (from their bush war experiences) Watches, sunglasses and any thing else that can glint is taken off or it’s of a type that will minimise any glint. I can believe something like this was ordered. (It’s the same for anything that might create noise) it was one of the first things drummed in to me by the old boys.

Thank you, very helpful. I suppose it makes sense, the Milsub was made to comply with a Defstan, these were basically a standard watch cleverly disguised.

[Slevin Kelevra]

Saw that article and thought it was very interesting.

If it was anyone other than Perezcope reporting it, my first thought would be that it was made up.

[Chris_in_the_UK]

Thank you for sharing this - very interesting!.

[Sinnlover]

After much deliberation I can safely say this is my on my list of grails.
I have never much fancied a Milsub preferring the Issued SM300 but I could make an exception for this. The list is now this, the SM300, a Rhodesian AF issued Speedmaster, a 1980 issued CWC diver and SA Navy Tudor 7016. I can’t wait to win the lottery as they only way I will get them all.

[Slevin Kelevra]

Love reading those old MWR threads. All the big names commenting is very interesting.

[John Wall]

Great find John👍🏽
Thanks for sharing